Panel of Practitioner Experts On What Works to Advance Women
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| Jennifer Allyn, PricewaterhouseCoopers |
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| Cathy Benko, Deloitte |
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| Joanna Barsh, McKinsey & Company |
Robin Ely: This is a practitioner panel of women with roles in their companies to advance women. She asked each speaker to speak for 10 minutes to address what has really worked well for their companies -- a strategy in their firm that has accelerated the advancement of women -- and what is a challenge for them today (keeps them awake at night) and something we might be able to help them do (research challenge).
Jennifer Allyn, PwC
One problem: Women moving between companies, get a raise, but usually lateral move that sets them back in seniority -- how to get women to stay longer so they’re there long enough to advance.
Change the structure: Company used to rank the people against their peers in terms of annual performance, but if you haven’t been there all year (e.g., take a leave), you can’t get in that top ranking. Allow top women to roll over their ranking from the year before (transition year); medical leave, parental leave (gender neutral); went from 86% returning from maternity to 91% returning. People worried about their rankings and a track record of consistently high ratings is really important to advancement, and women are taking their leaves is when they need those high ratings most.
Challenge still today: Incorrectly assessing your competition. Women don’t want to be part of the "rat race" -- not so much because they're concerned about giving up their values, but out of fear of rejection or failure. They would rather not try for partner and not get it than go up for partner in a public tournament and lose. This is not a fear of success, but a fear of rejection.
Things to do: Obviously make sure incumbent doesn’t get to choose successor, etc., other structural changes can help.
Women are complicit in gender stereotypes, what to do about them in the organization? The work-family narrative is very strong.
Joanna Barsh, McKinsey
Center of leadership research, center of leadership project began in 2004.
Women in professional service firms die by 1,000 cuts.
Talking to successful women to see what worked for them; what happens when you label the fear and work with people. Two questions here: (1) organizations (loved the law formula promoted by Shelley Correll); (2) women – get out of our own way.
For example, after a long and illustrious career, Joanna was asked to be on a board, but initially said no because she felt unqualified -- always felt unqualified throughout her career.
Leadership sponsorship, leaders of the firm: If the CEO doesn’t have religion, you can do whatever you want, but you won’t get anything but incremental change. The religion is “I want to make this happen – it’s in my bones, it’s in my identity.”
European single dad, “I can do in four days what you can do in five.”
Better policies, training, practices, but a long way to go.
Stumbling block is in the middle of the pipeline: would love research to understand who are these people in the middle, what do they want from life and work and what do they believe is holding them back (if anything)?
Facing a national crisis: much more competitive and challenging for young people today.
Why does the world find it so easy to trash Sheryl Sandberg but not Ron Johnson, for example (jcpenny CEO)? So easy to criticize women at the top, not men.
Cathy Benko, Deloitte
If Joanne is seething with insecurity, I have the impostor complex.
Power of role models, you see what you see and what you experience.
Root cause that really steps out: Set of de-facto standards and norms and expectations about how things are supposed to work, how careers are supposed to be built, about how work is supposed to be done. Where did these come from? Came into vogue at the start of the industrial revolution, we’re no longer there, don’t have a workforce where these rules fit; roles in society have changed as well, work roles have not adjusted. Fewer than 20% of US households (17%) have that traditional family structure, can’t make it work one way anymore.
Women are the canaries in the corporate coal mine – not an issue about women, about a workforce structural change.
How can we move from rigid corporate ladder to a corporate lattice? Nailing a business case, keeping it current and keeping it successful. Positioning the women initiative as an innovation initiative – drive market-place growth and where the best women and men want to be. Need an element of “what’s in it for me?” Men need to believe they’re better off for it, not just women.
Deloitte put a workshop together for the men called “women as buyers” since they didn’t really know how to sell to women (ask out for beer? Talk about Yankees? Etc.); client is not “fickle” – has new information, going through a process of discovery.
Stumbling blocks & where we [as researchers] come in:
Design & conduct research about breaking down standards and norms – how did they evolve, do they have to be that way?
We're always training women how to negotiate, how to be a leader, etc. – but women actually do know how to do these things, just not necessarily from a man’s point of view. We keep trying to groom the women to look like the men [“fix” the women] -- need to create a more inclusive idea of how things can be done.
Family structure: who’s expected to be in the workplace, who’s not, who gets a buy, etc.; Cathy's family structure put together each day with spit and bubble gum; let others know, normalize it, rather than mysticizing family life and acting like it's all in control, no issue.
Value in the relationship that goes into the negotiation; over time, factor in the intangibles of the experience, the relationship, might we value it different, might women be better negotiators when you look beyond who “won.”
The workplace needs us! Thank you for all your work to help make it happen.
Q&A
Ellen Kosek: 60 and out at McKinsey – male-centered norm, women’s 10 yrs extra of life and caregiving etc.; Joanna 1st woman to complete the marathon (32 years), husband 10x more feminist than she is; she thinks it’s a good thingJoanne Martin: Entry level people incredibly long hours, hurts women more faster younger – ever been able to move companies beyond defining good worker that way?
Jennifer Allen: young women in their 20s have anticipatory dread, already sent signal they can’t keep working there as parents, leave early
Sabbatical policy at McKinsey: only 3 people have ever taken it; incredibly hard to come back after being away and ramp up; clients don’t wait for you; now they have “Take time” – 450 people have signed up for it; take the time you want for whatever reason, seems to work better
Cathy Benko: at pretty structural/functional turnover; don’t want it lower now; no turnover gap between men and women now; dial down to one client, extra-curriculars, but stay connected, because if you don’t stay connected prognosis is terrible (professional services industry)
Role model of leader: if leader says I’m going home, it’s 5:30, everyone else will; but if leader doesn’t do that, employees get the message
Ellen Kossek: Global multinationals adopting American standards of overwork
Issues of multinationals: can/should be working any time of day, every day of week?
Joanna Barsh: Fear and insecurity drives so much of behavior; McKinsey leader goes for hour run every morning; who wants to join him? 30 employees signed up right away
Robin Ely: what is being defended? What emotions are people trying to ward off with these behaviors and norms?
Jennifer Allyn: all pt roles started with ft, ft the ideal/standard, pt just means doing ft work less, not a different role; once women rotate into HQ, get pregnant because hours are predictable
Cecilia Ridgeway: Highly destructive system, driven by massive insecurity [(Joanne Martin: it’s driven by profits!)]; massive effort to prove your value to the group; masculinity for men, women trying to grab that golden ring; can we re-see it as a trap? A lot of people don’t like it; if pluralistic ignorance, we have a big chance once we figured it out; white alpha males who have drunk the cool-aid and believe in their minds and souls that this is the way things should be, they scare the other guys, the other guys scare the women, the white people scare the minorities, and it goes on and on; do they believe or are they secretly scared too?
Cathy Benko: Take the mystique out, be more transparent about how we make it work, admit we’re shopping, golfing, caregiving [personal chaos of each day]
Wake-up call for man Joanna knows (wife in accident) etc. – these guys who've had wake-up calls are different [like Nuria Chincilla case]
Jennifer Allyn: man who talks openly about flexibility but has a sponsorship/reputation; but it is a race, we’re all in this race, try to outwork peers, even if this guy does it
Robin Ely: something very powerful about keeping people connected to their emotional experience, emotions not disconnected from intellect; help our students see this
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